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newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
Hi everybody.

So I started playing with Hercyles.
I found the gercules-390.org site (wikipedia still shows this as the
main site btw)
I found tk3 and played with it for a week, learning some basic stuff.

Then I stumbled on tk4-.

I emailed Jay Maynard to point out this maybe oversight but the message
bouned

Then I searched his name in this group and found a post about github
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/73072)

Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?

Where to go to read relevant and current information about this amazing
project?

Hope I can get this message posted and someone can answer this.

Kind regards,

Jeroen Baten
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <jeroen@...> wrote :

> Then I stumbled on tk4-.

> Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?
 
> Where to go to read relevant and current
> information about this amazing
> project?

First I will assume that you are
interested in MVS, not CMS, DOSVS,
MTS, MUSIC, TSS.

There are 3 major paths to go with MVS.

1. You can download a bootleg z/OS
ADCD from somewhere. z/OS questions
can be directed to IBM-MAIN:
https://listserv.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

2. You can go with the freely-available
TK4-. The group for TK4- is:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/turnkey-mvs/info

3. You can go with MVS/380 which isn't
as up-to-date as the very latest TK4-, but
does allow 31-bit and 64-bit (beta)
programming. The group is:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-os380/info

Finally, if you have a generic MVS
question independent of either TK4-
or MVS/380, you can post here:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/info

The best direction to go depends on
what exactly you are trying to achieve
by running MVS (and not CMS etc).
What are your plans?

BFN. Paul.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Hello and thanks Paul.

Well, what are my plans, you say.

I wrote 8 books about Linux, so I guess I know my way around that
system. :-)

And I am just curious to learn more about the ways a mainframe works.

There are several OS options but since I know neither maybe mvs is just
as good as any?

My plans:
-learn the mainframe master console and user session
-learn to program it. (ASM, PL/I and Cobol are the options on TK3)
  if there is a setup with more languages, or maybe a more current OS
  that would be nice too.

I hope this answers your question.

Looking forward to learn more.

Kind regards,

Jeroen Baten
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <jeroen@...> wrote :

Hi Jeroen.

Based on what you said you wanted
to do, I would suggest starting with
TK4-. Another thing it has that I forgot
to mention is TCP/IP.

You can literally spend the rest of your
life learning about MVS on TK4-. No
need to upgrade.

I checked the turnkey-mvs "links" section
and found the link to TK4-:

http://wotho.ethz.ch/tk4-/

Any installation issues, post in
turnkey-mvs instead of here.

> There are several OS options but since
> I know neither maybe mvs is just
> as good as any?

MVS is by far the "fullest" mainframe
operating system, so yes, stick with
that.

> learn to program it. (ASM, PL/I and Cobol are the options on TK3)

Two C compilers are provided with
TK4-. GCC and JCC. JCC is
commercial quality, GCC is open
source.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <kerravon86@...> wrote :

> Another thing it has that I forgot
> to mention is TCP/IP.

ie TK4- comes with TCP/IP, while
MVS/380 does not.

> Two C compilers are provided with
> TK4-. GCC and JCC. JCC is
> commercial quality, GCC is open
> source.

Also, the JCC implementation is closer
to what IBM produces, while GCCMVS
(produced by me) is designed to
be more easily understood by
someone with a Unix or Windows
background. The mainframe-isms
have been hidden as much as
possible in GCCMVS (actually,
mainly the runtime library, ie
PDPCLIB).

BFN. Paul.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your hard work on GCCMVS then!

I am currently still trying to wrap my head around the basics.
I can start rpf but I still need to find out what a dataset exactly is.
How the filesystem works and how to navigate it as a user.

So, there is still a long way ahead of me.

But, who knows, maybe I will write another book about this new adventure
so more people can discover this world?

Kind regards,

Jeroen Baten

Op 29-04-17 om 14:17 schreef [hidden email] [hercules-390]:

>
>
> ---In [hidden email], <kerravon86@...> wrote :
>
>> Another thing it has that I forgot
>> to mention is TCP/IP.
>
> ie TK4- comes with TCP/IP, while
> MVS/380 does not.
>
>> Two C compilers are provided with
>> TK4-. GCC and JCC. JCC is
>> commercial quality, GCC is open
>> source.
>
> Also, the JCC implementation is closer
> to what IBM produces, while GCCMVS
> (produced by me) is designed to
> be more easily understood by
> someone with a Unix or Windows
> background. The mainframe-isms
> have been hidden as much as
> possible in GCCMVS (actually,
> mainly the runtime library, ie
> PDPCLIB).
>
> BFN. Paul.
>
>

--
Jeroen Baten              | EMAIL :  [hidden email]
  ____  _  __              | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
   |  )|_)(_               | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
  _|_/_| \__)              | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <jeroen@...> wrote :

> I can start rpf but I still need to find out what a dataset exactly is.
> How the filesystem works and how to navigate it as a user.

Basically you replace:

/herc01/devel/pdpclib/stdio.h

with:

HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.H(STDIO)

You basically need a separate
directory (PDS) for each file type
you wish to store. So there would
also be a:

HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.C(STDIO)

File types can have different attributes,
like C source code might be stored
in RECFM=V, assembler code in
RECFM=F, and load modules
(executables) in RECFM=U.

You can see some of my
recommendations here:

http://mvs380.sourceforge.net/System380.txt

And yes, please record all your
thoughts and observations in this
new journey, as some people,
including me, like to read that
sort of thing, so that we know
what needs extra documentation
etc.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <kerravon86@...> wrote :

> HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.H(STDIO)

Clarification - the above shows a
single member of a PDS. You can
access a single member directly
in JCL etc, but the actual dataset
name is considered to be:

HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.H

and (as a PDS or "library") it can have
many members. You can see that this
is a PDS if you look at the DSORG,
which is "PO". If it was a simple
sequential file, it would be "PS"
instead.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Jay quit and didn't turn anything over to anybody.
http://www.hercules-390.eu/ is the updated site.

Here is a sample chapter of getting started with OS/390.
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780131738560/samplechapter/0131738569_01.pdf

You can run your Linux applications on z Systems.
http://www.mainframes.com/Linux.html

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Jeroen Baten [hidden email]
[hercules-390] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everybody.
>
> So I started playing with Hercyles.
> I found the gercules-390.org site (wikipedia still shows this as the
> main site btw)
> I found tk3 and played with it for a week, learning some basic stuff.
>
> Then I stumbled on tk4-.
>
> I emailed Jay Maynard to point out this maybe oversight but the message
> bouned
>
> Then I searched his name in this group and found a post about github
> (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/73072)
>
> Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?
>
> Where to go to read relevant and current information about this amazing
> project?
>
> Hope I can get this message posted and someone can answer this.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jeroen Baten
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Jeroen Baten <[hidden email]>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: [hidden email]
>   Subscribe:    [hidden email]
>   Unsubscribe:  [hidden email]
>   List owner:   [hidden email]
>
> Files and archives at:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
>
> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
>   http://www.hercules-390.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>



--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
On 29 April 2017 at 07:47, Jeroen Baten [hidden email] wrote:

> I wrote 8 books about Linux, so I guess I know my way around that
> system. :-)
>

Seems likely... Do you specialize in one area, or try to cover everything?
You are not, for instance, a kernel specialist or one in end-user
interfaces?

>
> And I am just curious to learn more about the ways a mainframe works.
>
> There are several OS options but since I know neither maybe mvs is just
> as good as any?
>

I'm still not clear on your goals. "The mainframe" is just another hardware
platform that, as I'm sure you know, can run a number of operating systems
including Linux. Since you already know about all there is to know about
Linux, do you want to learn about the other OSs that appeared for various
reasons to run on the IBM hardware, or are you interested in the actual
hardware architecture, or...?

The hardware is very interesting in its own right, and was the first
"hardware family" or if you like "system architecture" in that the
Principles of Operation describes a core set of features that all models
implement, and optional features that may be found on a given model. A few
models also implemented unique or extended features beyond even the
core+optional, but these were relatively rare.

The core has evolved over time, of course, under different names from S/360
in 1964 with around 100 intructions to S/370 base (not much different) to
S/370 virtual storage, to S/370 XA in the 1980s to ESA/370 to zArch
(64-bit) which now has well over 1000 instructions. But to this day an
application program last compiled in 1964 is likely to be able to run on
todays latest zArch machine, which speaks not only to hardware
compatibility but to that of at least some of the OSs.

MVS (now z/OS) is probably the most well known IBM OS for these
architectures, but perhaps not the most common. Certainly in the 1980s
there were many more VM/370 licences than there were MVS/370. These days no
one but IBM knows how many copies of any of their OSs are extant and on
what hardware, but educated guesses suggest well under ten thousand, and it
may well be much lower than that. On the other hand, a significant portion
of the world's corporate data processing is still performed on these
systems.

The architecture was historically very programmer friendly, but times have
changed and the newer versions are harder to write well performing
assembler code for. As on most current platforms, optimizing compilers
rule. So for these and other reasons (notably the non availability of IBM's
current OSs for hobbyist use), it does make sense to learn at least
initially about the older architecture versions and their OSs.

In some ways you will find programming for these OSs much the same as for
any other; in other ways you will very much be a stranger in a strange
land. It's important not to dismiss these older systems as something run by
nerdy men in white lab coats with boxes of punched cards, or to discover
that something works very much differently from what you are used to, and
give up because it's so weird.

You will find lots of knowledgable people here, with varying opinions. Ask
whatever you want and you are pretty sure to get at least one answer, and
maybe three incompatible ones.

Welcome.

Tony H.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list


Op 01-05-17 om 06:00 schreef Tony Harminc [hidden email] [hercules-390]:

>
>
> On 29 April 2017 at 07:47, Jeroen Baten [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     I wrote 8 books about Linux, so I guess I know my way around that
>     system. :-)
>
>
> Seems likely... Do you specialize in one area, or try to cover
> everything? You are not, for instance, a kernel specialist or one in
> end-user interfaces?

I do management consulting, I like to do Python/Django dev,
I do project management in projects with a big part open source.
I am the project leader of the LibrePlan and the LibreHis projects.
I initiated a conference (t-dose.org) a business club and an open source
businesses foundation.
This sort of covers it.

I am not a kernel specialist. My UX design skills suck. :-)


>
>
>     And I am just curious to learn more about the ways a mainframe works.
>
>     There are several OS options but since I know neither maybe mvs is just
>     as good as any?
>
>
> I'm still not clear on your goals. "The mainframe" is just another
> hardware platform that, as I'm sure you know, can run a number of
> operating systems including Linux. Since you already know about all
> there is to know about Linux, do you want to learn about the other OSs
> that appeared for various reasons to run on the IBM hardware, or are you
> interested in the actual hardware architecture, or...?

To me currently the hardware of a mainframe is an abstract box where
everything is optimised to increase throughput. That works for me :-).

>
> The hardware is very interesting in its own right, and was the first
> "hardware family" or if you like "system architecture" in that the
> Principles of Operation describes a core set of features that all models
> implement, and optional features that may be found on a given model. A
> few models also implemented unique or extended features beyond even the
> core+optional, but these were relatively rare.
>
> The core has evolved over time, of course, under different names from
> S/360 in 1964 with around 100 intructions to S/370 base (not much
> different) to S/370 virtual storage, to S/370 XA in the 1980s to ESA/370
> to zArch (64-bit) which now has well over 1000 instructions. But to this
> day an application program last compiled in 1964 is likely to be able to
> run on todays latest zArch machine, which speaks not only to hardware
> compatibility but to that of at least some of the OSs.
>
> MVS (now z/OS) is probably the most well known IBM OS for these
> architectures, but perhaps not the most common. Certainly in the 1980s
> there were many more VM/370 licences than there were MVS/370. These days
> no one but IBM knows how many copies of any of their OSs are extant and
> on what hardware, but educated guesses suggest well under ten thousand,
> and it may well be much lower than that. On the other hand, a
> significant portion of the world's corporate data processing is still
> performed on these systems.
>
> The architecture was historically very programmer friendly, but times
> have changed and the newer versions are harder to write well performing
> assembler code for. As on most current platforms, optimizing compilers
> rule. So for these and other reasons (notably the non availability of
> IBM's current OSs for hobbyist use), it does make sense to learn at
> least initially about the older architecture versions and their OSs.
>
> In some ways you will find programming for these OSs much the same as
> for any other; in other ways you will very much be a stranger in a
> strange land. It's important not to dismiss these older systems as
> something run by nerdy men in white lab coats with boxes of punched
> cards, or to discover that something works very much differently from
> what you are used to, and give up because it's so weird.
>
> You will find lots of knowledgable people here, with varying opinions.
> Ask whatever you want and you are pretty sure to get at least one
> answer, and maybe three incompatible ones.

Sofar I really enjoy the experience of this group and the replies.
I love to learn so I am happy here now :-)

>
> Welcome.
>
> Tony H.
>
>
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list

Please look at the very last lines of this section from the hercules-390
group:

"

>> Community email addresses:
>> Post message: [hidden email]
>> Subscribe: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: [hidden email]
>> List owner: [hidden email]
>>
>> Files and archives at:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
>>
>> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
>> http://www.hercules-390.org"




Op 01-05-17 om 01:12 schreef Mike Schwab [hidden email]
[hercules-390]:

>
>
> Jay quit and didn't turn anything over to anybody.
> http://www.hercules-390.eu/ is the updated site.
>
> Here is a sample chapter of getting started with OS/390.
> http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780131738560/samplechapter/0131738569_01.pdf
>
> You can run your Linux applications on z Systems.
> http://www.mainframes.com/Linux.html
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Jeroen Baten [hidden email]
> [hercules-390] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi everybody.
>>
>> So I started playing with Hercyles.
>> I found the gercules-390.org site (wikipedia still shows this as the
>> main site btw)
>> I found tk3 and played with it for a week, learning some basic stuff.
>>
>> Then I stumbled on tk4-.
>>
>> I emailed Jay Maynard to point out this maybe oversight but the message
>> bouned
>>
>> Then I searched his name in this group and found a post about github
>>
> (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/73072)
>>
>> Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?
>>
>> Where to go to read relevant and current information about this amazing
>> project?
>>
>> Hope I can get this message posted and someone can answer this.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jeroen Baten
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> Posted by: Jeroen Baten <[hidden email]>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Community email addresses:
>> Post message: [hidden email]
>> Subscribe: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: [hidden email]
>> List owner: [hidden email]
>>
>> Files and archives at:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
>>
>> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
>> http://www.hercules-390.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
>
>

--
Jeroen Baten              | EMAIL :  [hidden email]
  ____  _  __              | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
   |  )|_)(_               | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
  _|_/_| \__)              | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
That seems to be anathema to the mainframe mindset.

On 05/01/2017 09:45 AM, Jeroen Baten [hidden email]
[hercules-390] wrote:
> I do management consulting, I like to do Python/Django dev,
> I do project management in projects with a big part open source.
> I am the project leader of the LibrePlan and the LibreHis projects.
> I initiated a conference (t-dose.org) a business club and an open source
> businesses foundation.
> This sort of covers it.
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RE: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Jeroen Baten wrote:

> Please look at the very last lines of this section
> from the hercules-390 group:

[...]
> > > Get the latest version of Hercules from:
> > > http://www.hercules-390.org

Yes, we're aware of that, Jeroen.  Unfortunately however, there's nothing we can do to change it.  :(

Only the owner/moderator of the hercules-390 Yahoo Group can change any of the group's (forum's) settings/attributes (which includes the footer that appears at the bottom of every posting), and guess who that is?

Yep.  Jay Maynard!

And he's unfortunately AWOL.  :(

We've (I've personally) tried contacting him at his last known email address about this very issue (turning over ownership/control of this group to someone else so we can change some of its settings(*)), but he has unfortunately never responded to any of our inquiries.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: [hidden email]

(*) Which includes not only the text of the group's footer message but also its attachments setting too.  Right now you can't attach anything to any of your posts and we'd like to change that, but we can't since none of us besides him is the group owner/moderator.  So... we just continue on as is, since we pretty much have no choice in the matter.  It sucks, but then so does life in general, so what are you going to do?  :(



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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
But at the same time, there are a lot of people in the Linux/unix camps
who are extremely hostile to IBM and to mainframes. Having people who
have some appreciation of the strengths and weaknesses of both benefits
everybody.

On 01/05/17 09:30, 'John P. Hartmann' [hidden email]
[hercules-390] wrote:

> That seems to be anathema to the mainframe mindset.
>
> On 05/01/2017 09:45 AM, Jeroen Baten [hidden email]
> [hercules-390] wrote:
>> I do management consulting, I like to do Python/Django dev,
>> I do project management in projects with a big part open source.
>> I am the project leader of the LibrePlan and the LibreHis projects.
>> I initiated a conference (t-dose.org) a business club and an open source
>> businesses foundation.
>> This sort of covers it.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]


------------------------------------

------------------------------------

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Get the latest version of Hercules from:
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:00:19AM -0400, Tony Harminc [hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
 
> "The mainframe" is just another hardware platform that, as I'm sure you
> know, can run a number of operating systems including Linux.

This is true.  And, the OP said he wanted to learn how "a mainframe" works.
His interests might not be limited to IBM hardware.  There are a variety of
other mainframes to choose from.  Though sadly the mainframe emulators and
OSes available to hobbyists are limited.  I know of a few.

The dps8m emulator capable of running Multics is progressing nicely:

    https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/

DTCyber can emulate a variety of CDC mainframes:

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/

But only one or two very basic OSes are available to hobbyists.  Cyber1.org:

    https://cyber1.org/

has PLATO running on NOS on DTCyber.  They got special permission to run
NOS.  I wish it was available to hobbyists.

Some VAXen running VMS were large enough to be considered mainframes.
OpenVMS is available to hobbyists and can be run on the SIMH VAX emulator:

    http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/

Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes available
to hobbyists?




--

Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
There is a pile of ICL1900 stuff here:-

http://www.icl1900.co.uk/index.html

some KDF9 stuff here:-

http://sw.ccs.bcs.org/KDF9/index.html

and an Atlas 1 emulator here:-

http://www.leatherdale.net/atlashelpfiles/index.html

I am not sure if these count as "Mainframes", certainly I think ATLAS should
as it is an asynchronous machine. There are also commercial emulators. I
believe that Fujitsu has an ICL2900 emulator and BULL has a DPS8 (not 8M)
emulator but as they still make (probably considerable amounts of) money
from them they are are not generally available. Of course IBM itself has a Z
emulator, again for a price...

Dave
G4UGM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:hercules-
> [hidden email]]
> Sent: 01 May 2017 16:30
> To: Hercules 390 E-Mail List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [hercules-390] Re: newbie question
>
> On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:00:19AM -0400, Tony Harminc
> [hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
>
> > "The mainframe" is just another hardware platform that, as I'm sure
> > you know, can run a number of operating systems including Linux.
>
> This is true.  And, the OP said he wanted to learn how "a mainframe"
works.
> His interests might not be limited to IBM hardware.  There are a variety
of

> other mainframes to choose from.  Though sadly the mainframe emulators
> and OSes available to hobbyists are limited.  I know of a few.
>
> The dps8m emulator capable of running Multics is progressing nicely:
>
>     https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/
>
> DTCyber can emulate a variety of CDC mainframes:
>
>     http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/
>
> But only one or two very basic OSes are available to hobbyists.
Cyber1.org:

>
>     https://cyber1.org/
>
> has PLATO running on NOS on DTCyber.  They got special permission to run
> NOS.  I wish it was available to hobbyists.
>
> Some VAXen running VMS were large enough to be considered mainframes.
> OpenVMS is available to hobbyists and can be run on the SIMH VAX
> emulator:
>
>     http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/
>
> Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes
> available to hobbyists?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kevin
> http://www.RawFedDogs.net
> http://www.Lassie.xyz
> http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
> Bruceville, TX
>
> What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
> Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Kevin Monceaux <[hidden email]>
> ------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
>   http://www.hercules-390.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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>
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list


Am 01.05.2017 um 17:29 schrieb Kevin Monceaux [hidden email]
[hercules-390]:
> On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:00:19AM -0400, Tony Harminc [hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes available
> to hobbyists?
>
>
This is an emulator for the German mainframe Telefunken TR 440:

http://tr440.info/

You can write programs using the Telefunken Assembly Language
(Telefunken Assembler Sprache = TAS) and use a lot of system software
which is part of the emulator. The emulator behaves much like the original
time-shared dialog programming system of the TR 440 of the 1970s.

The original TR 440 had many HLL compilers, including ALGOL, FORTRAN,
COBOL, PL/1 (Multics), BCPL, Pascal. But unfortunately they are lost and
not (yet) part of this distribution. Let's see what future brings.

Kind regards

Bernd
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Re: newbie question

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Unisys Clearpath OS 2200 Express at http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express is an emulator and the current OS 2200 for hobbyist/educational use.
 

 And Unisys ClearPath MCP Express at http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express . Emulator and current OS for MCP systems, hobbyist/educational use.

Mark Gutzwiller
 

---In [hidden email], <Kevin@...> wrote :

 On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:00:19AM -0400, Tony Harminc tharminc@... mailto:tharminc@... [hercules-390] wrote:
 
 > "The mainframe" is just another hardware platform that, as I'm sure you
 > know, can run a number of operating systems including Linux.
 
 This is true. And, the OP said he wanted to learn how "a mainframe" works.
 His interests might not be limited to IBM hardware. There are a variety of
 other mainframes to choose from. Though sadly the mainframe emulators and
 OSes available to hobbyists are limited. I know of a few.
 
 The dps8m emulator capable of running Multics is progressing nicely:
 
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/
 
 DTCyber can emulate a variety of CDC mainframes:
 
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/ http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/
 
 But only one or two very basic OSes are available to hobbyists. Cyber1.org:
 
 https://cyber1.org/ https://cyber1.org/
 
 has PLATO running on NOS on DTCyber. They got special permission to run
 NOS. I wish it was available to hobbyists.
 
 Some VAXen running VMS were large enough to be considered mainframes.
 OpenVMS is available to hobbyists and can be run on the SIMH VAX emulator:
 
 http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/ http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/
 
 Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes available
 to hobbyists?
 
 
 
 
 --
 
 Kevin
 http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.RawFedDogs.net
 http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.Lassie.xyz
 http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
 Bruceville, TX
 
 What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
 Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

 
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