TN3270 emulation and code pages

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
148 messages Options
1234 ... 8
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
Does the CODEPAGE configuration option has any impact on how data entered via the keyboard is displayed on the screen when connecting to Hercules via a 3270 emulation client like C3270 or QWS3270 ?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
The data transmitted "on the wire" is EBCDIC; code page is a client issue.

On 04/13/2017 09:53 PM,
[hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
>
>
> Does the CODEPAGE configuration option has any impact on how data
> entered via the keyboard is displayed on the screen when connecting to
> Hercules via a 3270 emulation client like C3270 or QWS3270 ?
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list


On 4/13/2017 9:53 PM, [hidden email]
[hercules-390] wrote:
>
>
> Does the CODEPAGE configuration option has any impact on how data
> entered via the keyboard is displayed on the screen when connecting to
> Hercules via a 3270 emulation client like C3270 or QWS3270 ?
>
>
Dear ahngb4nond2fjs4iv3chtuacfjmf4dgzileuxli7,

It shouldn't. Keyboard output on a 3270 terminal is purely a local
matter. Hercules is only involved when an AID key is pressed.

--Ivan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Someone who STILL has not identified themselves but whose email address is [hidden email] asked:

> Does the CODEPAGE configuration option has any impact on
> how data entered via the keyboard is displayed on the screen
> when connecting to Hercules via a 3270 emulation client
> like C3270 or QWS3270 ?

Yes.

The data Hercules receives from the TN3270 client is ASCII and must be translated to EBCDIC before passing it on to the guest.  When the guest then decides to write something to its 3270 device, the data "received" by Hercules must then be translated from EBCDIC back into ASCII again before being transmitted to the TN3270 client.  Your chosen Hercules CODEPAGE is used for both.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: [hidden email]




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list


On 4/13/2017 10:05 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)' [hidden email]
[hercules-390] wrote:

> Someone who STILL has not identified themselves but whose email address is [hidden email] asked:
>
>> Does the CODEPAGE configuration option has any impact on
>> how data entered via the keyboard is displayed on the screen
>> when connecting to Hercules via a 3270 emulation client
>> like C3270 or QWS3270 ?
> Yes.
>
> The data Hercules receives from the TN3270 client is ASCII and must be translated to EBCDIC before passing it on to the guest.  When the guest then decides to write something to its 3270 device, the data "received" by Hercules must then be translated from EBCDIC back into ASCII again before being transmitted to the TN3270 client.  Your chosen Hercules CODEPAGE is used for both.
>
Fish,

 From reading the question, I think he means that when a types a certain
key, then something else may show (before anything is sent). That's
purely local to the emulator and the codepage configured for hercules
won't have any effect there.

--Ivan



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Not correct.

The data in a TN3270 session is EBCDIC, a 3270 data stream.

A TN session (typewriter) is, of course another kettle of fish.

On 04/13/2017 10:05 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
[hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <david.b.trout@...> wrote :

> The data Hercules receives from the TN3270
> client is ASCII and must be translated to
> EBCDIC before passing it on to the guest.

The 3270 data stream contains some
binary data that should NOT be
translated, doesn't it?

I would have thought that only the
c3270 application could know which
bit is user input and which bit is binary,
thus c3270 would need to do the
translation of the user input.

And thus c3270 would need to maintain
its own translate tables.

Also, if Hercules was doing the
translation, then how could ind$file
work? ind$file has its own translate
tables too, doesn't it? Or does it
pick it up from c3270 or Hercules?

BFN. Paul.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
Thanks for the info. So that explains why typing Hebrew in the emulated session is displayed as garbage on the screen.
 From what I read there is no code page for Hebrew in Hercules.
 

 Dani Kalmar
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <jphartmann@...> wrote :

>> Does the CODEPAGE configuration option has any impact on how data
>> entered via the keyboard is displayed on the screen when connecting to
>> Hercules via a 3270 emulation client like C3270 or QWS3270 ?

> The data transmitted "on the wire" is EBCDIC; code page is a client issue.

I don't think that answers the question
I thought was being asked.

ASCII '[' is x'5b' and invariant.
EBCDIC '[' is x'ad' in code page 1047
EBCDIC '[' is x'ba' in code page 037 (from
memory, and doesn't matter if I'm wrong
as it is just an example).

If an EBCDIC file containing x'ad' is
sent to a printer, and the Hercules
EBCDIC code page (in the Hercules
config file) is 1047, then that character
will be dutifully translated *by
Hercules* to x'5b'.

If the EBCDIC file contains x'ba'
instead, then it will *not* be translated
to x'5b'. Again - by Hercules.

The question I believe is being asked,
is, if the Hercules config file has the
EBCDIC side set to 1047, and there
is a character x'ad' in a data file, and
c3270 is being used to view that data
file, will Hercules use its translate
table to correctly convert x'ad' to
x'5b', or is Hercules not involved at
all, and it is actually the c3270
application that is responsible for
the conversion, and may in fact fail
to translate x'ad' to x'5b', but
instead translate x'ba' to x'5b'?

My guess is that c3270 has its own
translate tables, but I'm not sure.

BFN. Paul.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <kerravon86@...> wrote :

> I would have thought that only the
> c3270 application could know which
> bit is user input and which bit is binary,
> thus c3270 would need to do the
> translation of the user input.

But if it was a 3215 telnet session, I
would instead expect that to go
through the Hercules codepage
translation defined in the Hercules
config file.

BFN. Paul.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list


On 4/13/2017 10:19 PM,
[hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
> So that explains why typing Hebrew in the emulated session is
> displayed as garbage on the screen.
> From what I read there is no code page for Hebrew in Hercules.
>
> Dani Kalmar
>
Dani,

You're probably going to need a unicode capable system and 3270 emulator.

Going from UNICODE to EBCDIC is not a simple task (and probably - but I
don't know much) converting UNICODE to DBCS EBCDIC, so the 3270 terminal
must be ready for it.

--Ivan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
Dani,

The point here is that the data you see on your screen in the 3270
window is presented to your terminal's operating system in ASCII.

If you run VM on Hercules, you might get away with uppercase input and
using the uppercase English messages.


On 04/13/2017 10:26 PM, Ivan Warren [hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2017 10:19 PM,
> [hidden email] [hercules-390] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>> So that explains why typing Hebrew in the emulated session is
>> displayed as garbage on the screen.
>> From what I read there is no code page for Hebrew in Hercules.
>>
>> Dani Kalmar
>>
> Dani,
>
> You're probably going to need a unicode capable system and 3270 emulator.
>
> Going from UNICODE to EBCDIC is not a simple task (and probably - but I
> don't know much) converting UNICODE to DBCS EBCDIC, so the 3270 terminal
> must be ready for it.
>
> --Ivan
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
  Post message: [hidden email]
  Subscribe:    [hidden email]
  Unsubscribe:  [hidden email]
  List owner:   [hidden email]

Files and archives at:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390

Get the latest version of Hercules from:
  http://www.hercules-390.org


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [hidden email]
    [hidden email]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [hidden email]

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
    https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <ivan@...> wrote :

>> Thanks for the info.
>> So that explains why typing Hebrew in the emulated session is
>> displayed as garbage on the screen.
>> From what I read there is no code page for Hebrew in Hercules.

> You're probably going to need a unicode capable system and 3270 emulator.

> Going from UNICODE to EBCDIC is not a simple task (and probably - but I
> don't know much) converting UNICODE to DBCS EBCDIC, so the 3270 terminal
> must be ready for it.

It is only CJK (Chinese/Japanese/Korean)
that requires 2 bytes to store all their
characters (because they didn't invent an
alphabet).

I would hope the user could code up a
suitable Hebrew code page that at least
allow Hebrew to go up via the card reader
and down via the printer.

They could use their Windows Hebrew
editor to maintain their files. That is
exactly how I do my work already - I
virtually never use a 3270 emulator.
I just use the card reader, tape drive
and printer. ie traditional MVS before
TSO. Apparently I'm the oldest fogey
in the world.

BFN. Paul.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
Hello!

Actually one does exist for both... But both the OS running on the PC
and via Hercules properly grok it.

-----
Gregg C Levine [hidden email]
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:38 PM, [hidden email]
[hercules-390] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ---In [hidden email], <ivan@...> wrote :
>
>>> Thanks for the info.
>>> So that explains why typing Hebrew in the emulated session is
>>> displayed as garbage on the screen.
>>> From what I read there is no code page for Hebrew in Hercules.
>
>> You're probably going to need a unicode capable system and 3270 emulator.
>
>> Going from UNICODE to EBCDIC is not a simple task (and probably - but I
>> don't know much) converting UNICODE to DBCS EBCDIC, so the 3270 terminal
>> must be ready for it.
>
> It is only CJK (Chinese/Japanese/Korean)
> that requires 2 bytes to store all their
> characters (because they didn't invent an
> alphabet).
>
> I would hope the user could code up a
> suitable Hebrew code page that at least
> allow Hebrew to go up via the card reader
> and down via the printer.
>
> They could use their Windows Hebrew
> editor to maintain their files. That is
> exactly how I do my work already - I
> virtually never use a 3270 emulator.
> I just use the card reader, tape drive
> and printer. ie traditional MVS before
> TSO. Apparently I'm the oldest fogey
> in the world.
>
> BFN. Paul.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: [hidden email]
> ------------------------------------
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
John P. Hartmann wrote:

> Not correct.
>
> The data in a TN3270 session is EBCDIC, a 3270 data stream.

(Ack!)  You are of course correct.  My bad.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: [hidden email]




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
My problem is not with messages. I have character literals in COBOL source with Hebrew letters that are messed up. and I need them to be
 in Hebrew for validation processing.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
Yep ... you'll have to use unicode.

Joe

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 3:59 PM,
[hidden email] [hercules-390] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> My problem is not with messages.
> I have character literals in COBOL source with Hebrew letters that are
> messed up. and I need them to be
> in Hebrew for validation processing.
>
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <joemonk64@...> wrote :

>> My problem is not with messages.
>> I have character literals in COBOL
>> source with Hebrew letters that are
>> messed up. and I need them to be
>> in Hebrew for validation processing.

> Yep ... you'll have to use unicode.

Why? 256 values should be enough
to store all standard EBCDIC values
plus the extra Hebrew characters.

The source code in question almost
certainly came from a single byte
character set.

BFN. Paul.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - General mailing list
So if the 3270 data stream is EBCDIC, and I tell the 3270 emulation client that MF host code page is 424 (Hebrew), isn't it the emulator who's converting the windows ASCII values into EBCDIC way before Hercules sees the 3270 data stream ?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: TN3270 emulation and code pages

Hercules390 - General mailing list
---In [hidden email], <ahngb4nond2fjs4iv3chtuacfjmf4dgzileuxli7@...> wrote :

> So if the 3270 data stream is EBCDIC, and I
> tell the 3270 emulation client that MF host
> code page is 424 (Hebrew), isn't it the emulator
> who's converting the windows ASCII values
> into EBCDIC way before Hercules sees the 3270 data stream ?

I believe that is totally correct.

And a google search shows this:

http://x3270.bgp.nu/Unix/c3270-man.html#Character-Sets

The -charset option or the "c3270.charset" resource controls the EBCDIC host character set used by c3270. Available sets include:

hebrew 424 iso8859-8


Does that solve the problem?

BFN. Paul.
1234 ... 8
Loading...