S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

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S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

david_schweinsberg
Hi

I'm afraid I'm completely new to mainframe computing, and have never
had  dealings with the actual hardware.  So I was wondering if anyone
knows of a photo (or diagram) that shows the *detail* of a CPU control
panel.  I'm trying to relate what I'm doing in Hercules to actual
hardware.

BTW I was reading an "opinion" in CNET [1], written by the mainframe
general manager at BMC, discussing what needs to happen to plug the
mainframe brain drain.  I thought it was interesting, but I was
wondering if people think anything is likely to change?

Regards,

David

[1]
<http://news.com.com/Plugging+the+mainframe+brain+
drain/2010-1010_3-5735569.html?tag=nefd.ac>




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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

David Wade
David,
 I don't think a "real" panel helps much. As you can see from
http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/harwell/slide12.htm
Its a bit complex, and most of it was never used in day-to-day operation. In fact on later machines there was no control panel. Every thing was done via "soft panels" on a local 3270 screen. Take a look at
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP4381.html
The 4381 is the box to the left of the two screens on the same table. You can just see the control panel to the right of these screens. As far as I can remember this had four buttons, Power On, Power Off, STOP and START. Every thing else was done through screens/panels on the console 3270. You used these to specify set up what was on each channel, IML the box, set the IPL parms and then IPL.
Its a pity there isn't a 43xx manual on Al Kosovas site and then you could make Hercules look like a "real" mainframe.

Dave



========================================
Message date : Jun 10 2005, 09:26 AM
From : "david_schweinsberg"
To : [hidden email]
Copy to :
Subject : [H390-MVS] S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?
Hi

I'm afraid I'm completely new to mainframe computing, and have never
had dealings with the actual hardware. So I was wondering if anyone
knows of a photo (or diagram) that shows the *detail* of a CPU control
panel. I'm trying to relate what I'm doing in Hercules to actual
hardware.

BTW I was reading an "opinion" in CNET [1], written by the mainframe
general manager at BMC, discussing what needs to happen to plug the
mainframe brain drain. I thought it was interesting, but I was
wondering if people think anything is likely to change?

Regards,

David

[1]
drain/2010-1010_3-5735569.html?tag=nefd.ac>






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RE: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

Ivan Warren
<snip />
> of these screens. As far as I can remember this had four
> buttons, Power On, Power Off, STOP and START. Every thing
> else was done through screens/panels on the console 3270. You
> used these to specify set up what was on each channel, IML
> the box, set the IPL parms and then IPL.
<snip />

I could be wrong .. but ..

(My first system was a 4381.. (This tells you how *young* I am !))

As far as I remember, the 'panel' itself only had 2 buttons (actually
switches) :

Master/Emergency On/Off (The *REAL* power switch)
CE Switch (Which allowed the CE (or unrully customers like me) to run Diags
& access otherwise hidden panel functions).. Activating the CE switch also
turned the TEST indicator on the console... Of course, with the CE switch
turned on, IBM would not guarantee the system would operate as per
specifications !

and..

2 8" Disk drives (The microcode disk and the customisation disk)

A 4 or 5 position Led hex display which seemed to be showing something
fairly dynamic (i.e. it kinda 'pulsed' without showing any distinctive
figures) - possibly the CSAR (Control Storage Address Register).

Now..

The *Console* itself (a 3279 2C or a 3278 Model 2A - That only have 20 or so
programable lines - the last lines are reserved to display some system
information status) had a special keyboard with (sitting on the top) 3
buttons :

- Power On/IML
- Power Off (Controled power off as opposed to the Master Power switch on
the panel) - There were all sorts of 'home made' devices that had been
devised by operators & admins to prevent accidently hitting that one !
- Light test

Some special keys, such as STOP (red), START (green), and Manual Functions
invocation key..

And Some indicators :

- Power
- Wait
- Sys
- Test

All manual operations were performed through menus (for example, to IPL, you
had to go to the manual functions menu (Q), then the load menu (L), the use
the load function (L) - or you would simply type "QLL" from the main menu)..

Unlike the 3090 (which had a couple of dedicated hardware consoles) - the
4381 console was shared between the hardware and the OS (a special key
allowed switching between the 2 views).

Now if someone could really get the menu layouts, this could be a fun
front-end to do for hercules !

- This is what I *remember* - so some of this might be bogus ! -

--Ivan



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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

david_schweinsberg
This is fantastic guys, thanks.  You've put me on to some very
interesting photo collections.  Now it *would* be great to get the
original manuals in one form or another :-)

David





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Re: Hercules 3270 Control Panel(Was: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?)

Kevin Monceaux
In reply to this post by Ivan Warren
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 02:01:17PM +0200, Ivan Warren wrote:

> (My first system was a 4381.. (This tells you how *young* I am !))

Sadly all of this was before my time.  I'm a newcomer to the mainframe
world.  I been working as a mainframe operator for about six years now.
When I started the HMC in the shop I'm in was, and still is, a PC running
OS/2.  From what I hear from the system programmers here they preferred the
3270 based HMCs.

> The *Console* itself (a 3279 2C or a 3278 Model 2A - That only have 20 or so
> programable lines - the last lines are reserved to display some system
> information status) had a special keyboard with (sitting on the top) 3
> buttons :
>
> - Power On/IML
> - Power Off (Controled power off as opposed to the Master Power switch on
> the panel) - There were all sorts of 'home made' devices that had been
> devised by operators & admins to prevent accidently hitting that one !
> - Light test
>
> Some special keys, such as STOP (red), START (green), and Manual Functions
> invocation key..
>
> And Some indicators :
>
> - Power
> - Wait
> - Sys
> - Test
>
> All manual operations were performed through menus (for example, to IPL, you
> had to go to the manual functions menu (Q), then the load menu (L), the use
> the load function (L) - or you would simply type "QLL" from the main menu)..
>
> Unlike the 3090 (which had a couple of dedicated hardware consoles) - the
> 4381 console was shared between the hardware and the OS (a special key
> allowed switching between the 2 views).
>
> Now if someone could really get the menu layouts, this could be a fun
> front-end to do for hercules !

It would be one way to give Hercules a more authentic feel.  Since 3270 HMCs
were before my time I'd sure love to see that feature added to Hercules.
Even if documentation of the menu layouts arn't available perhaps folks on
the various Hercules lists could remember enough about the layout to come
close.  If it was implemented such that a separate 3270 session was used for
the HMC it would also give another option for controlling Hercules remotely.
Now if they just made PC keyboards with START, STOP IML, etc., buttons ...


Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
Waco, TX


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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

halfmeg
In reply to this post by David Wade
> David Wade wrote:

><snip>

> Its a pity there isn't a 43xx manual on Al Kosovas site and then
> you could make Hercules look like a "real" mainframe.
>
> Dave

><snip>

We may have nearly a complete set of 43xx manuals which are poised to
be scanned and hosted at www.softlib.org in DjVu format in the future.

Will attempt to find the operation manual which would contain the
panels and start on it soon.

Phil - then again Hurricane #1 may be on it's way north




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Re: Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

David Wade
In reply to this post by david_schweinsberg
David,
 You might also want to look at
http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/events/anniversaries/40th/images/ibm360_672/
I have actually sat at the console in the picture, but only when running MTS to mount my tapes, so it was just like a user console:-(
Dave





========================================
Message date : Jun 10 2005, 03:01 PM
From : "david_schweinsberg"
To : [hidden email]
Copy to :
Subject : [H390-MVS] Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?
This is fantastic guys, thanks. You've put me on to some very
interesting photo collections. Now it *would* be great to get the
original manuals in one form or another :-)

David







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Re: RE: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

David Wade
In reply to this post by david_schweinsberg
>========================================
>Message date : Jun 10 2005, 01:01 PM
>From : "Ivan Warren"
>To : [hidden email]
>Copy to :
>Subject : RE: [H390-MVS] S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?
>
>
>> of these screens. As far as I can remember this had four
>> buttons, Power On, Power Off, STOP and START. Every thing
>> else was done through screens/panels on the console 3270. You
>> used these to specify set up what was on each channel, IML
>> the box, set the IPL parms and then IPL.
>
>
>I could be wrong .. but ..
>
>(My first system was a 4381.. (This tells you how *young* I am !))
>
>As far as I remember, the 'panel' itself only had 2 buttons (actually
>switches) :

I had forgotton there was a "panel" on the CPU. Idon't think I ever used that.

>Master/Emergency On/Off (The *REAL* power switch)

Wasn't this only the CPU power? Or was it a real powere switch and brought everything up via the EPO cables?

>CE Switch (Which allowed the CE (or unrully customers like me) to run Diags
>& access otherwise hidden panel functions).. Activating the CE switch also
>turned the TEST indicator on the console... Of course, with the CE switch
>turned on, IBM would not guarantee the system would operate as per
>specifications !



>and..
>
>2 8" Disk drives (The microcode disk and the customisation disk)
>
>A 4 or 5 position Led hex display which seemed to be showing something
f>airly dynamic (i.e. it kinda 'pulsed' without showing any distinctive
>figures) - possibly the CSAR (Control Storage Address Register).
>
>Now..
>
>The *Console* itself (a 3279 2C or a 3278 Model 2A - That only have 20 or so
>programable lines - the last lines are reserved to display some system
>information status) had a special keyboard with (sitting on the top) 3
>buttons :

I think that only the 3278-2A had the special board. The 3279- 2c had the extra little "Soap on a roap" box with the buttons on.. But they 3279 were dearere so I can't se any one "wasting" one as a 4381 console...

>- Power On/IML
>- Power Off (Controled power off as opposed to the Master Power switch on
>the panel) - There were all sorts of 'home made' devices that had been
>devised by operators & admins to prevent accidently hitting that one !
>- Light test
>
>Some special keys, such as STOP (red), START (green), and Manual Functions
>invocation key..
>
>And Some indicators :
>
>- Power
>- Wait
>- Sys
>- Test
>
>All manual operations were performed through menus (for example, to IPL, you
>had to go to the manual functions menu (Q), then the load menu (L), the use
>the load function (L) - or you would simply type "QLL" from the main menu)..
>
>Unlike the 3090 (which had a couple of dedicated hardware consoles) - the
>4381 console was shared between the hardware and the OS (a special key
>allowed switching between the 2 views).
>
>Now if someone could really get the menu layouts, this could be a fun
>front-end to do for hercules !
>
>- This is what I *remember* - so some of this might be bogus ! -

I think your memory is better than mone..

>--Ivan

Dave


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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

Tim Holloway
You've got to admit I've carried the verssimilitude thing pretty far
myself - I did the IMPL cd that effectively loads S/370 microcode into
an Intel Box (OK, so if you put it into "diagnostic mode", the
microcode engine does look a lot like Linux+Hercules. :) )

However, I passed on the control panel. Over the years, IBM control
panels have changed appearance considerably. They featured various
types of plastic rotating knobs, brushed-aluminum cylinder toggle
switches, chunky backlighted rectangular (approx 1.5x1-inch) plastic
pushbuttons (with and without stripes), and rows of little light
bulbs, either with their own little collars or sitting behind some
sort of plastic screen with writing on them. The S/370 138 I used in
college had a knob on the side of the console that would rotate a
plastic band with various text items on it. As others have mentioned,
by the time the 4300-series boxes came out, the control panel was
nothing but a special form of 3270 display. And those are just the
variants that come immediately to mind.

Truthfully, even our console operators were severely limited as to
what buttons they could push. Even the Systems Programmers and the
managers were usually kept at bay. So to me, the consolde was never
that "real" to begin with. I remember that our Amdahl had a drawer
with a telephone and an (acoustically-coupled) modem in it for remote
field support, but what sort of faceplate it had, I have no
recollection of at all. The casing, OTOH was cool. sculptured with
little vertical windows in it so you could admire the little cooling
towers on the components inside.

The only control that was truly constant was the "Big Red Knob". The
Emergency Stop switch was typically mounted somewhere in the upper
right-hand are of the console, about 2-3 inches in diameter and red
with white lettering on it. Pull it and die was the rule. On a lot of
machines, it physically yanked the main power bus open. On some
models, at least, it locked in the extended position when pulled so
IBM had to come in and check out the hardware before they'd reset it.

I don't know if this fine old tradition persists. I can't recall
seeing one on the 4300s, and for the last 10 years, I have never
actually seen the mainframes I'm working on (one of them was on a
satellite link half a continent away). Seems like at one time, you
could actually buy a dummy Red Knob for your PC, but it's been a while.

So as far as I'm concerned, the Hercules software control panel is
just as valid as any that IBM is currently using or has used.

I do have a couple of IPL checklists with references to controls
written down in an old notebook or 2, but some of them may be for
things like the 1130.

   Tim






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RE: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

David Wade
>
>
> You've got to admit I've carried the verssimilitude thing
> pretty far myself - I did the IMPL cd that effectively loads
> S/370 microcode into an Intel Box (OK, so if you put it into
> "diagnostic mode", the microcode engine does look a lot like
> Linux+Hercules. :) )
>

I guess I am getting old, but I don't think any thing in IT that approaches
the experience of powering up even a small mainframe, which was fully cabled
with remote power cabling. I can't remember exactly how long it took for our
4381 to power up and IML but I guess 20-30 minutes was the norm. However you
just hit the main power on button and every thing came up, in sequence so it
did not overload the power with start up surges. We only had small strings
of devices, but you just sat at the console as the whole room came to
life.... Very memorable...

Dave.

P.S. I will look at our mainframe next time I am in the machine room, but I
don't think it has a red mushroom:-( And if it has I am sure its only the
CPU that will dies. All the DASD lives in fibre attached SAN. I think we
still have some locally attached 3174s and cartridge tapes, but that's about
it...



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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

david_schweinsberg
In reply to this post by Tim Holloway
Thank you very much for that Tim.

--- In [hidden email], "holloway_tim" <timh@m...> wrote:
> --- snip ---
> So as far as I'm concerned, the Hercules software control panel is
> just as valid as any that IBM is currently using or has used.

I was having a look at the screenshots of the Hercules GUI (by Fish)
and it has on it some dials that I can also see in the photos.  What
are they?  I'm running on top of Linux so I can't look at the GUI
myself.

David






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RE: Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

David Wade
> Thank you very much for that Tim.
>
> --- In [hidden email], "holloway_tim" <timh@m...> wrote:
> > --- snip ---
> > So as far as I'm concerned, the Hercules software control panel is
> > just as valid as any that IBM is currently using or has used.
>
> I was having a look at the screenshots of the Hercules GUI
> (by Fish) and it has on it some dials that I can also see in
> the photos.  What are they?  I'm running on top of Linux so I
> can't look at the GUI myself.
>

1) The FAQ says it should run under WINE...
(http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/hercules/wingui/hercgui-faq.html)

2) These are used to set the IPL device address for the IPL button.  I guess
a real mainframe might use them for other reasons. I never got to press any
buttons on a mainframe with these dials.

> David
>
>



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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

Tim Holloway
--- In [hidden email], "David Wade" <dave@d...> wrote:

> > Thank you very much for that Tim.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "holloway_tim" <timh@m...> wrote:
> > > --- snip ---
> > > So as far as I'm concerned, the Hercules software control panel is
> > > just as valid as any that IBM is currently using or has used.
> >
> > I was having a look at the screenshots of the Hercules GUI
> > (by Fish) and it has on it some dials that I can also see in
> > the photos.  What are they?  I'm running on top of Linux so I
> > can't look at the GUI myself.
> >
>
> 1) The FAQ says it should run under WINE...
> (http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/hercules/wingui/hercgui-faq.html)
>
> 2) These are used to set the IPL device address for the IPL button.
 I guess
> a real mainframe might use them for other reasons. I never got to
press any
> buttons on a mainframe with these dials.
>
> > David
> >
> >


I found some really great pictures.

This one:
http://www-db.stanford.edu/pub/voy/museum/pictures/display/3-1.htm has
a detailed shot of the S/360 Model 40 console. I think this is one of
the ones that I copied down IPL instructions for long ago. Note down
on the lower righthand corner are the 3 IPL address rotary switches
and below them the red and green plastic block pushbuttons, which are
almost certainly labelled "STOP" and "START". The big rotary switch
just above and to the left was the mode control switch, I believe, and
included "RUN", "Single-Step" and various diagnostic options. I hope I
can dig out the notes I made long ago. IPL was about 10 steps,
including bringing the IPL device to a ready state, setting mode to
"RUN", dialing in the IPL address, and pressing START.

I think the address knobs had alternate meanings when not in RUN
state. Also note the Red Knob is in the upper LEFT on this unit,
contrary to common usage.

The cylindrical switches are something like brushed-aluminum cylinders
commonly stuck on then end of a flat blade (to make the slot in the
console panel smaller) and on this model, a little artistic
enhancement (inlay, I think) makes then ends of them black. Some were
solid silver. Often these switches were 3-position, up, down, and center.

-----

Another great set of pics:

http://www.thegalleryofoldiron.com/2044.HTM

Note how different the Model 44 is than the Model 40. Much more empty
space. Since the main reason for all the switches and flashing lights
on the console was that there were wired more or less directly to the
physical hardware registers (which were vastly different in size,
shape, and usage from the S/360 register set), it's likely that by
this point IBM had a little more faith in they underlying hardware and
consequently less need to monitor/control it up front. Then again, the
44 was microcoded, I think. I have a schematic of its innards as well
as a Model 50's.

The lights between the STOP and START switches are some variant of the
PSW's AMWP flags, I think. Of particular interest to operators is
always the M and W lights, of course.

Click on "The Twins" and off to the left you can see the S/370 Model
135 console with scrollable the band display and not 3, but *5* rotary
switches. The rightmost 3 were the IPL address switches, but I forget
the use of the others. Also, down below you can click on a closeup of
the collared lights (uninstalled). I don't think IBM ever did any
mainframes with LED status lights. By the time LEDs were ubiquitous,
they'd gone to CRT control panels.

  Tim





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Re: RE: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

Bob Brown
In reply to this post by David Wade
>
>
>I think that only the 3278-2A had the special board. The 3279- 2c
>had the extra little "Soap on a roap" box with the buttons on.. But
>they 3279 were dearere so I can't se any one "wasting" one as a 4381
>console...


The 3279's had the special board.  The "soap on a roap" box was what
you used with a 3179.  (We had a 4341 that had a 3279 console which
was later upgraded to a 4381 with a 3179 console).

-Bob
--
[hidden email]   ####  ####    Bob Brown - KB9LFR
Harper Community College   ##  ##  ##    Systems Administrator
Palatine IL USA            ####  ####    Saved by grace


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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

Jay Jaeger
In reply to this post by david_schweinsberg
There was a smaller V5 that came later.  I didn't recall that the V8 was
smaller, but rather that it was larger.

This wasn't Florida DOT or DMV, in Talahassee, by any chance, was
it?  (since you mentioned hurricanes)

> > >
> > >Message: 4
> > >    Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 02:02:12 -0000
> > >    From: "holloway_tim" <timh@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?
> > >
> > ><< snip >>
> >
>
>Oooh. Flashback. We got one of the first Amdahls in town. I seem to
>recall *upgrading* to the v6 (after debating heavily over the v8), and
>I don't think I ever visited the v6 console. That was after we'd
>realized that in hurricane territory the best place for a mainframe
>was not in the basement next to the river :) and moved the system up 3
>floors. I do recall the DG and the humongous screen, now that you
>mention it, however.

It is possible that there was a 2V buss, if the S/360 was running ECL (or
something like it), which is not unlikely, since the 7094-II ran ECL.  I
have never looked at the logic family in 360's much.


>If one of my more demented ex-colleagues was to be believed, there
>were S/360s running some gawdawful amount of amps at 2 volts on some
>of the power busses. Alas, he's passed on about 2 years now. He
>would've loved Hercules. But I'd expect a contactor or other relay
>power switch to manage the actual main power.
>
>The IBM 1130 also had the round knob. I know this because a local
>company donated one to my school and some idiot pulled it. Which is
>also how we found out about the latching mechanism.
>
>I found an 1130 emulator a while back. Unlike Hercules, it requires
>Windows, so I haven't gotten around to firing it up. My first hands-on
>experience was a doctored-up 1130 that concurrently ran a plant about
>300 miles away and managed the site I was working at. Which was also a
>chemical plant. It manufactures very nice-smelling artificial scents
>from waste turpentine via fractional distillation. After an evening
>playing with FORTRAN, I'd come out reeking.

I think there is an 1130 emulator that is part of SIMH.  That should not
require Windows.

>   Tim

---
Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
[hidden email]



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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

david_schweinsberg
In reply to this post by Tim Holloway
--- In [hidden email], "holloway_tim" <timh@m...> wrote:
> I found some really great pictures.
...
>
> This one:
> http://www-db.stanford.edu/pub/voy/museum/pictures/display/3-1.htm ...
>
> http://www.thegalleryofoldiron.com/2044.HTM
...
>   Tim

These are absolutely fantastic.  Thank you very much!

David





 
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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

Tim Holloway
In reply to this post by Jay Jaeger
--- In [hidden email], Jay Jaeger <cube1@c...> wrote:
> There was a smaller V5 that came later.  I didn't recall that the V8
was
> smaller, but rather that it was larger.

And more expensive. We decided that the cost/benefit wasn't there, so
we upgraded to the V6 instead.
>
> This wasn't Florida DOT or DMV, in Talahassee, by any chance, was
> it?  (since you mentioned hurricanes)

Nope, but you're within 150 miles. Computer Power, in Jacksonville.
Now the mortgage servicing division of Fidelity National Corp, which
is not related the the famous Internet brokerage of almost the same name.

We may have shared an FE.

>
> > > >
> > > >Message: 4
> > > >    Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 02:02:12 -0000
> > > >    From: "holloway_tim" <timh@m...>
> > > >Subject: Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?
> > > >
> > > ><< snip >>
> > >
> >

>
> >If one of my more demented ex-colleagues was to be believed, there
> >were S/360s running some gawdawful amount of amps at 2 volts on some
> >of the power busses.

>
> It is possible that there was a 2V buss, if the S/360 was running
ECL (or
> something like it), which is not unlikely, since the 7094-II ran
ECL.  I
> have never looked at the logic family in 360's much.
>

Somewhere around the prime of the S/360-370 era, give or take, IBM
switched from low-density transistor circuit cards to their own Solid
Logic Technology, which apparently was not actually Integrated
Circuts, but rather discrete components packed onto an insulating
substrate with a metal covering over the unit. As I recall, the
covering was not molded or stamped, but made by cutting out a
"plus-sign" shaped piece of sheet metal and folding down the tabs -
making a square package with seams at the corners.

So when you say "ECL", I'm presuming you mean transistor architectures
with or without SLT, as opposed to ECL IC's. Though by about 1977, I
was working with a Prime 300 mini that was built of LS TTL ICs.




 
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Re: S/360 CPU Control Panel photo?

halfmeg
In reply to this post by david_schweinsberg
> david_schweinsberg wrote:
> This is fantastic guys, thanks.  You've put me on to some very
> interesting photo collections.  Now it *would* be great to get the
> original manuals in one form or another :-)
>
> David

We have uploaded an 'index' page of the 4341 panels in the files
section.  It is in TIF format, named 4341.tif .

Phil - remainder will probably be available by the weekend at softlib




 
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