IBM education ?

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IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
Hi folks,

I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what sorts of
educational opportunities there are out there in regards to z/VM and z/OS?

I've always been interested in IBM mainframes. I grew up in the
Poughkeepsie area, visited some of the IBM facilities on school trips
growing up, did some assembler programming on them in local colleges, and
then got into the UNIX world and have been there ever since.

The main barrier for me has always been availability.

I'd be interested in on-line mainframe oriented courses that provide a user
account so I could get my feet wet.

I'd also be happy to pay the IBM ADCD fee to get a copy. My understanding
is that this is $900? Pricey, but reasonable considering my other option
here is to pay for courses which are likely to run in the same ballpark.
Does the license expire? I mean, do I have to keep paying the $900 each
year to keep my install working? Or could I just pay for a one year
subscription to get started and optionally take it from there if I want to
stay up-to-date.

I have played with the VM/370 stuff in the past, and its fun, but I'm
afraid that I can't get too motivated to learn it with other priorities on
my plate that actively advance my career. Learning some practical modern
z/OS skills that I could put on my resume would be welcome, though.

Anyhow, any pointers on where to start, ideas for other options, or even
just more relevant groups to visit and ask questions at would be very.

Thanks for any help.

Michael
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
1. You can't get ADCD unless you currently run zPDT.

2. Given #1, your best option is to download hercules and the z/VM
evaluation... this will allow you to get some mainframe experience.

3. Treat it as a lab. Try to come up with problems to solve.

Joe

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michael Graffam [hidden email]
[H390-VM] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what sorts of
> educational opportunities there are out there in regards to z/VM and z/OS?
>
> I've always been interested in IBM mainframes. I grew up in the
> Poughkeepsie area, visited some of the IBM facilities on school trips
> growing up, did some assembler programming on them in local colleges, and
> then got into the UNIX world and have been there ever since.
>
> The main barrier for me has always been availability.
>
> I'd be interested in on-line mainframe oriented courses that provide a
> user account so I could get my feet wet.
>
> I'd also be happy to pay the IBM ADCD fee to get a copy. My understanding
> is that this is $900? Pricey, but reasonable considering my other option
> here is to pay for courses which are likely to run in the same ballpark.
> Does the license expire? I mean, do I have to keep paying the $900 each
> year to keep my install working? Or could I just pay for a one year
> subscription to get started and optionally take it from there if I want to
> stay up-to-date.
>
> I have played with the VM/370 stuff in the past, and its fun, but I'm
> afraid that I can't get too motivated to learn it with other priorities on
> my plate that actively advance my career. Learning some practical modern
> z/OS skills that I could put on my resume would be welcome, though.
>
> Anyhow, any pointers on where to start, ideas for other options, or even
> just more relevant groups to visit and ask questions at would be very.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
---In [hidden email], <michael.graffam@...> wrote :

> I have played with the VM/370 stuff in the past,
> and its fun, but I'm afraid that I can't get too
> motivated to learn it with other priorities on
> my plate that actively advance my career.
> Learning some practical modern z/OS skills
> that I could put on my resume would be
> welcome, though.

Why don't you learn the subset of z/OS
that is present in TK4- or MVS/380,
e.g. assembler, JCL etc, and when you
have mastered that (ie MVS 3.8j), you
can then start trying to find real z/OS
so that you can start using the stuff
that was not present in MVS 3.8j?

A word of warning - I'm not sure that
it is possible to "master" MVS 3.8j. :-)

And with respect to VM, since z/VM
is downloadable for free, you can
also attempt to master that. There is
a free C compiler available for it
(and MVS 3.8j for that matter).
Although perhaps assembler would
be more appropriate for mainframe
specific skills.

BFN. Paul.

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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
For z/OS you could try:
http://www.efglobe.com/cgi-bin/mainframe/mainuser
It's z/OS 1.6 but that's modern enough to still be very relevant.
CICS, DB2 and IMS aren't very well at the moment but it's got Assembler,
COBOL and PL/I.
The TSO/E and ISPF are pretty much the same as current versions.
There are some restrictions as to what you are allowed to do, generally no
systems programming or snooping around.
Google "introduction to the new mainframe" to find a z/OS tutorial Redbook.
Have fun.
Cheers,
Mick.


On 2 September 2016 at 00:32, Joe Monk [hidden email] [H390-VM] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> 1. You can't get ADCD unless you currently run zPDT.
>
> 2. Given #1, your best option is to download hercules and the z/VM
> evaluation... this will allow you to get some mainframe experience.
>
> 3. Treat it as a lab. Try to come up with problems to solve.
>
> Joe
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michael Graffam [hidden email]
> [H390-VM] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what sorts of
>> educational opportunities there are out there in regards to z/VM and z/OS?
>>
>> I've always been interested in IBM mainframes. I grew up in the
>> Poughkeepsie area, visited some of the IBM facilities on school trips
>> growing up, did some assembler programming on them in local colleges, and
>> then got into the UNIX world and have been there ever since.
>>
>> The main barrier for me has always been availability.
>>
>> I'd be interested in on-line mainframe oriented courses that provide a
>> user account so I could get my feet wet.
>>
>> I'd also be happy to pay the IBM ADCD fee to get a copy. My understanding
>> is that this is $900? Pricey, but reasonable considering my other option
>> here is to pay for courses which are likely to run in the same ballpark.
>> Does the license expire? I mean, do I have to keep paying the $900 each
>> year to keep my install working? Or could I just pay for a one year
>> subscription to get started and optionally take it from there if I want to
>> stay up-to-date.
>>
>> I have played with the VM/370 stuff in the past, and its fun, but I'm
>> afraid that I can't get too motivated to learn it with other priorities on
>> my plate that actively advance my career. Learning some practical modern
>> z/OS skills that I could put on my resume would be welcome, though.
>>
>> Anyhow, any pointers on where to start, ideas for other options, or even
>> just more relevant groups to visit and ask questions at would be very.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
Thanks for the thoughts, guys.

I didn't realize z/VM was available as an evaluation. That's definitely
where I will start. z/VM with a couple of Linux LPARs to start. I'm sure
I'll come up with other stuff to do as I read through the redbooks.

So, ADCD requires the zPDT emulator? What is the barrier to that? Googling
around gives me a bunch of links to IBM PartnerWorld that aren't working.
I'm guessing it is either IBM-only, or prohibitively expensive?

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Joe Monk [hidden email] [H390-VM] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> 1. You can't get ADCD unless you currently run zPDT.
>
> 2. Given #1, your best option is to download hercules and the z/VM
> evaluation... this will allow you to get some mainframe experience.
>
> 3. Treat it as a lab. Try to come up with problems to solve.
>
> Joe
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michael Graffam [hidden email]
> [H390-VM] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what sorts of
>> educational opportunities there are out there in regards to z/VM and z/OS?
>>
>> I've always been interested in IBM mainframes. I grew up in the
>> Poughkeepsie area, visited some of the IBM facilities on school trips
>> growing up, did some assembler programming on them in local colleges, and
>> then got into the UNIX world and have been there ever since.
>>
>> The main barrier for me has always been availability.
>>
>> I'd be interested in on-line mainframe oriented courses that provide a
>> user account so I could get my feet wet.
>>
>> I'd also be happy to pay the IBM ADCD fee to get a copy. My understanding
>> is that this is $900? Pricey, but reasonable considering my other option
>> here is to pay for courses which are likely to run in the same ballpark.
>> Does the license expire? I mean, do I have to keep paying the $900 each
>> year to keep my install working? Or could I just pay for a one year
>> subscription to get started and optionally take it from there if I want to
>> stay up-to-date.
>>
>> I have played with the VM/370 stuff in the past, and its fun, but I'm
>> afraid that I can't get too motivated to learn it with other priorities on
>> my plate that actively advance my career. Learning some practical modern
>> z/OS skills that I could put on my resume would be welcome, though.
>>
>> Anyhow, any pointers on where to start, ideas for other options, or even
>> just more relevant groups to visit and ask questions at would be very.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
"So, ADCD requires the zPDT emulator? What is the barrier to that? Googling
around gives me a bunch of links to IBM PartnerWorld that aren't working.
I'm guessing it is either IBM-only, or prohibitively expensive?"

When you order ADCD, part of the ordering process is to provide your zPDT
serial number.

Buying the zPDT from ITC shows an annual license fee of $4,050. + the
annual license fee of $900 for ADCD = $5,000/yr for a single engine zPDT.
Add $3750 for each additional engine (up to two additional - 3 total).

http://www.p390store.com

Joe

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Michael Graffam [hidden email]
[H390-VM] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for the thoughts, guys.
>
> I didn't realize z/VM was available as an evaluation. That's definitely
> where I will start. z/VM with a couple of Linux LPARs to start. I'm sure
> I'll come up with other stuff to do as I read through the redbooks.
>
> So, ADCD requires the zPDT emulator? What is the barrier to that? Googling
> around gives me a bunch of links to IBM PartnerWorld that aren't working.
> I'm guessing it is either IBM-only, or prohibitively expensive?
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Joe Monk [hidden email] [H390-VM] <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 1. You can't get ADCD unless you currently run zPDT.
>>
>> 2. Given #1, your best option is to download hercules and the z/VM
>> evaluation... this will allow you to get some mainframe experience.
>>
>> 3. Treat it as a lab. Try to come up with problems to solve.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michael Graffam [hidden email]
>> [H390-VM] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what sorts of
>>> educational opportunities there are out there in regards to z/VM and z/OS?
>>>
>>> I've always been interested in IBM mainframes. I grew up in the
>>> Poughkeepsie area, visited some of the IBM facilities on school trips
>>> growing up, did some assembler programming on them in local colleges, and
>>> then got into the UNIX world and have been there ever since.
>>>
>>> The main barrier for me has always been availability.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested in on-line mainframe oriented courses that provide a
>>> user account so I could get my feet wet.
>>>
>>> I'd also be happy to pay the IBM ADCD fee to get a copy. My
>>> understanding is that this is $900? Pricey, but reasonable considering my
>>> other option here is to pay for courses which are likely to run in the same
>>> ballpark. Does the license expire? I mean, do I have to keep paying the
>>> $900 each year to keep my install working? Or could I just pay for a one
>>> year subscription to get started and optionally take it from there if I
>>> want to stay up-to-date.
>>>
>>> I have played with the VM/370 stuff in the past, and its fun, but I'm
>>> afraid that I can't get too motivated to learn it with other priorities on
>>> my plate that actively advance my career. Learning some practical modern
>>> z/OS skills that I could put on my resume would be welcome, though.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, any pointers on where to start, ideas for other options, or even
>>> just more relevant groups to visit and ask questions at would be very.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
What?! There's an evaluation edition of z/VM?? Wow, that's awesome!  

 Now how do I get that running on Hercules (on Windows)?
 

 I looked for conversations that cover that, but didn't find anything.
 

 If it's indeed possible to run that evaluation on Hercules, any pointers appreciated!
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
Depending on what you want to use the eval version for it may / may
not be "awesome".

It has Rexx, and the assembler (not HLA), and that's about it.  I.e.
very stripped down.

No CMS/DOS or any other "optional" components.

I wasn't able to get any recent versions of zLinux running on it, but
that was ~2 yr old versions of (Hercules) / Hyperion.   Newer versions
of Hyperion *might* have better results.

On 9/22/16, [hidden email] [H390-VM] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What?! There's an evaluation edition of z/VM?? Wow, that's awesome!
>
>  Now how do I get that running on Hercules (on Windows)?
>
>
>  I looked for conversations that cover that, but didn't find anything.
>
>
>  If it's indeed possible to run that evaluation on Hercules, any pointers
> appreciated!
>
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
---In [hidden email], <mikestramba@...> wrote :

> Depending on what you want to use the
> eval version for it may / may not be "awesome".

> It has Rexx, and the assembler (not HLA), and that's about it. I.e.
> very stripped down.

I wonder if the VM sixpack should be
structured such that all the goodies are
on a separate disk, and that disk can
be mounted just as easily on z/VM
as VM/370?

BFN. Paul.
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 14 December 2016 03:18
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Re: IBM education ?
>
> ---In [hidden email], <mikestramba@...> wrote :
>
> > Depending on what you want to use the eval version for it may / may
> > not be "awesome".
>
> > It has Rexx, and the assembler (not HLA), and that's about it. I.e.
> > very stripped down.
>
> I wonder if the VM sixpack should be
> structured such that all the goodies are on a separate disk, and that disk can
> be mounted just as easily on z/VM as VM/370?
>

It doesn't help that much. Unlike MVS there is no catalog on the pack, only on the minidisk so you have to add the entries to the directory..

> BFN. Paul.
>

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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
On 14 December 2016 at 04:00, 'Dave G4UGM' [hidden email] wrote:
>> I wonder if the VM sixpack should be
>> structured such that all the goodies are on a separate disk, and that disk can
>> be mounted just as easily on z/VM as VM/370?
>>
>
> It doesn't help that much. Unlike MVS there is no catalog on the pack, only on the minidisk so you have to add the entries to the directory..

Does zVM CMS support the old CMS 800-byte block file structure? I
thought that got dropped a decade or two ago.

Tony H.
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 14 December 2016 16:07
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Re: IBM education ?
>
> On 14 December 2016 at 04:00, 'Dave G4UGM' [hidden email]
> wrote:
> >> I wonder if the VM sixpack should be
> >> structured such that all the goodies are on a separate disk, and that
> >> disk can be mounted just as easily on z/VM as VM/370?
> >>
> >
> > It doesn't help that much. Unlike MVS there is no catalog on the pack, only
> on the minidisk so you have to add the entries to the directory..
>
> Does zVM CMS support the old CMS 800-byte block file structure? I thought
> that got dropped a decade or two ago.
>

I think you are right. Been a long time..

> Tony H.
>

Dave

>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Tony Harminc <[hidden email]>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
---In [hidden email], <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote :

>>>> I wonder if the VM sixpack should be
>>>> structured such that all the goodies are on a separate disk, and that
>>>> disk can be mounted just as easily on z/VM as VM/370?

>>> It doesn't help that much. Unlike MVS there is no catalog on the pack, only
>>> on the minidisk so you have to add the entries to the directory..

>> Does zVM CMS support the old CMS 800-byte block file structure? I thought
>> that got dropped a decade or two ago.
 
> I think you are right. Been a long time..

Ok, well Plan B. Should the "portable goodies"
that come with the VM Sixpack be packaged
as a tape that can be installed on either
VM/370 (to created the sixpack) or z/VM?

It just seems to me that the z/VM environment
should not be inferior in any way to the
Sixpack.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: IBM education ?

Hercules390 - Vm mailing list
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 15 December 2016 02:14
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [H390-VM] Re: IBM education ?
>
> ---In [hidden email], <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote :
>
> >>>> I wonder if the VM sixpack should be structured such that all the
> >>>> goodies are on a separate disk, and that disk can be mounted just
> >>>> as easily on z/VM as VM/370?
>
> >>> It doesn't help that much. Unlike MVS there is no catalog on the
> >>> pack, only on the minidisk so you have to add the entries to the
> directory..
>
> >> Does zVM CMS support the old CMS 800-byte block file structure? I
> >> thought that got dropped a decade or two ago.
>
> > I think you are right. Been a long time..
>
> Ok, well Plan B. Should the "portable goodies"
> that come with the VM Sixpack be packaged as a tape that can be installed on
> either
> VM/370 (to created the sixpack) or z/VM?
>
> It just seems to me that the z/VM environment should not be inferior in any
> way to the Sixpack.
>

A lot of stuff in the 6-pack was written to emulate features of later versions of CMS that are missing from the six pack.
Perhaps the older compilers, perhaps GCC but most bits are just not needed.

> BFN. Paul.
>

Dave

>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: [hidden email]
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>