Free Database for H390-MVS?

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Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Hi all,

We use DB2 for z/OS at work but I'm hoping that there is a free (to use
or opensource) database for MVS 3.8J somewhere.   I'm using the current
MVS 3.8 TK4- release if that helps.  I've looked via google but my
google-fu is a bit weak today (it's close to Monday).

jason

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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
---In [hidden email], <jason.froebe@...> wrote :

> We use DB2 for z/OS at work but I'm hoping that there is a free (to use
> or opensource) database for MVS 3.8J somewhere. I'm using the current
> MVS 3.8 TK4- release if that helps. I've looked via google but my
> google-fu is a bit weak today (it's close to Monday).

From memory, Jason Winter made
changes to SQLLITE in order for it
to work on JCC, and I think I made
a small change to his work to make
it work on GCC, and I think the
result was posted in this group, with
no real product release and testing,
but I can't remember.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
---In [hidden email], <kerravon86@...> wrote :

>> We use DB2 for z/OS at work but I'm hoping that there is a free (to use
>> or opensource) database for MVS 3.8J somewhere. I'm using the current
>> MVS 3.8 TK4- release if that helps. I've looked via google but my
>> google-fu is a bit weak today (it's close to Monday).

> From memory, Jason Winter made
> changes to SQLLITE in order for it

It's SQLite, not SQLLITE, and Jason
Winter's site appears to be offline, but
I seem to have downloaded it before
it went offline, so try this:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/files/SQLiteMVS.zip

> to work on JCC, and I think I made
> a small change to his work to make
> it work on GCC, and I think the
> result was posted in this group, with
> no real product release and testing,
> but I can't remember.

I think this is the post I was talking about:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/conversations/messages/9599

But with the whitespace mangling that
Yahoo Groups would have done, it
probably won't be easy to apply that
patch. It probably needs to be done
manually.

Fortunately I found that I had actually
imported this into CVS, and have now
uploaded my patch as a file instead:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/files/sqlite-jason-v1.txt

The diff is against 3.6.12 which you
can find here:

http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite-3.6.12.tar.gz

Note that both JCC and GCC are provided
with TK4- and JCC is the one most likely
to work.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Dont mess with any of Paul's hacked crap.

You can find a straight port of SQLite for MVS in CBT files 897 and 923.

Joe

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:04 PM, [hidden email] [H390-MVS] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> ---In [hidden email], <kerravon86@...> wrote :
>
> >> We use DB2 for z/OS at work but I'm hoping that there is a free (to use
> >> or opensource) database for MVS 3.8J somewhere. I'm using the current
> >> MVS 3.8 TK4- release if that helps. I've looked via google but my
> >> google-fu is a bit weak today (it's close to Monday).
>
> > From memory, Jason Winter made
> > changes to SQLLITE in order for it
>
> It's SQLite, not SQLLITE, and Jason
> Winter's site appears to be offline, but
> I seem to have downloaded it before
> it went offline, so try this:
>
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/files/SQLiteMVS.zip
>
> > to work on JCC, and I think I made
> > a small change to his work to make
> > it work on GCC, and I think the
> > result was posted in this group, with
> > no real product release and testing,
> > but I can't remember.
>
> I think this is the post I was talking about:
>
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/conversations/messages/9599
>
> But with the whitespace mangling that
> Yahoo Groups would have done, it
> probably won't be easy to apply that
> patch. It probably needs to be done
> manually.
>
> Fortunately I found that I had actually
> imported this into CVS, and have now
> uploaded my patch as a file instead:
>
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/files/sqlite-jason-v1.txt
>
> The diff is against 3.6.12 which you
> can find here:
>
> http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite-3.6.12.tar.gz
>
> Note that both JCC and GCC are provided
> with TK4- and JCC is the one most likely
> to work.
>
> BFN. Paul.
>
>
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
CBT 897 or CBT 923 will not work for MVS. They require z/OS UNIX System Services.

 

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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
CBT 897 or CBT 923 will not work for MVS 3.8J. They require z/OS UNIX System Services.
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Those CBT contributions are ZOS (OE) ports, not gonna be usable in turnkey
systems...
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Before I spend time on compiling PostgreSQL for Hercules, is there a reason
to?
Is DB2 so different that any substitution would be too far out?

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Mike Noel [hidden email] [H390-MVS] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Those CBT contributions are ZOS (OE) ports, not gonna be usable in turnkey
> systems...
>
>
>
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
The SQL implementation in many of the "free" Open Source DBMs is quite different from DB2 for z/OS - not just in terms os syntax but also semantics. I cannot speak specifically about PostgreSQL but I know that MySQL is very different.

Jim
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
---In [hidden email], <stercor@...> wrote :

> Before I spend time on compiling PostgreSQL
> for Hercules, is there a reason to?

When you say "for Hercules", do you mean
"for MVS 3.8j or similar"? Note that someone
once proposed putting hooks in Hercules
so that it would translate database calls
from MVS into calls to a Windows database.

Note that this person had a definite opinion
that PostgreSQL is much more viable for
real applications than SQLite:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-os380/conversations/messages/1828

I think that MVS/380 could very well be disruptive technology given a capable COBOL compiler, KICKS and let's say a port of PostGreSQL running as a STC. With tools such as these, a migration away from big iron would become feasible for a significant number of applications, IMO.


Note that if you port PostGreSQL that would
make a significant portion of the above done,
given that KICKS already exists, and an
old Cobol compiler already exists and since
we have GCC working, getting Open Cobol/
GNU Cobol working may be possible too.

> Is DB2 so different that any substitution would be too far out?

Last time I looked at the SQL standards,
they had 3 levels of compliance. I tried
to keep all my applications to the lowest
level. I suspect that all implementations
conform to the lowest level, and if people
use extensions, they should not expect
to be able to port their applications.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Yes. MySQL is different...Oracle's hands in the pie?

I downloaded the DB2 SQL reference; I'll look through it for differences.

SQLite (and SQLCipher) don't have a server/client model. It's not
multi-threaded. (I hope this is not out on a limb.)
They're suited for databases local to a machine.

I use PostgreSQL exclusively now; it has proved to be a good choice.

Yes, MVS 3.8j. Pardon the hardware (sort of) / software mixup. ;-)


Getting a database compiled on MVS 3.8j is the easy part. Getting from a
(say) COBOL program to the database is a whole level of difference.
Assembler interface? SVC?
Any thoughts on this?

Ted

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:05 PM, [hidden email] [H390-MVS] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> The SQL implementation in many of the "free" Open Source DBMs is quite
> different from DB2 for z/OS - not just in terms os syntax but also
> semantics. I cannot speak specifically about PostgreSQL but I know that
> MySQL is very different.
>
> Jim
>
>
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
---In [hidden email], <stercor@...> wrote :

> I downloaded the DB2 SQL reference;
> I'll look through it for differences.

I think it would be more useful to just
confirm that both PostgreSQL and
DB2 conform to level 1 of the SQL
standard.

> SQLite (and SQLCipher) don't have a
> server/client model. It's not multi-threaded.
> (I hope this is not out on a limb.)

Note that if you are using GCCMVS
to compile PostgreSQL then there
is no way I know of to do
multi-threading. I don't know about
JCC.

I would suggest that, if possible, you
first get a non-multithreaded version
running.

> Getting a database compiled on MVS 3.8j
> is the easy part. Getting from a (say)
> COBOL program to the database is a
> whole level of difference.

> Assembler interface? SVC?

> Any thoughts on this?

I don't know what to recommend here,
but I would point out that for whatever
reason, Jason Winter decided to use
an unused CPU instruction/opcode
in order to implement both TCP/IP
and local file access.

Another option that comes to mind is
a DIAG.

You might want to consider the
possibility of having the server
portion of PostgreSQL run on
Windows instead of MVS. If you
do that, then you will have
restored multithreading too.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Is there a source version for running on IBM MVS codebase within the
sources ?

As against say Linux and Windows - if not then you have a lot of work to
do in order to convert it.

Better to just use DB/2 - a proven product under MVS and later and
should play nicely with the existing compilers supplied with MVS.



On 20/01/17 21:39, 'Theodore M Rolle, Jr.' [hidden email] [H390-MVS]
wrote:

> Before I spend time on compiling PostgreSQL for Hercules, is there a
> reason to?
> Is DB2 so different that any substitution would be too far out?
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Mike Noel [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> [H390-MVS] <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Those CBT contributions are ZOS (OE) ports, not gonna be usable in
>     turnkey systems...
>
>

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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
I believe that even Release 1 of DB2 (no slash) required MVS/SP 1.3 (perhaps 1.1 but I would be surprised) for the Subsystem Interface (especially load to global) and the support for PC instructions (PC/AUTH address space). There may be other things but those are the most obvious missing pieces I have found so far.

Jim
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Btw, has anyone (besides me) ever looked into what it would take in terms of work to provide this functionality in MVS 3.8J? Load into global and subsystem interface don't look too bad but the functionality of PC/AUTH looks a little daunting. Or did I miss something and it has already been done?

Jim
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
Essentially upgrade MVS 3.7 source code to the current running 3.8J, change all the PL/S macro expansions to use the unexpanded dsects. And then write all the code to upgrade to MVS SP 1.3. I have doing the first step off and on for 9 years.

Laddie

Sent from whatever device I am using.

> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:12 PM, [hidden email] [H390-MVS] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Btw, has anyone (besides me) ever looked into what it would take in terms of work to provide this functionality in MVS 3.8J? Load into global and subsystem interface don't look too bad but the functionality of PC/AUTH looks a little daunting. Or did I miss something and it has already been done?
>
> Jim
>
>
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
In reply to this post by Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
---In [hidden email], <jimruddy1953@...> wrote :

> Btw, has anyone (besides me) ever looked
> into what it would take in terms of work to
> provide this functionality in MVS 3.8J?
> Load into global and subsystem interface
> don't look too bad but the functionality of
> PC/AUTH looks a little daunting. Or did
> I miss something and it has already been done?

I don't understand your question, and I
note that the "PC" instruction doesn't
exist in standard Hercules S/370 and
MVS 3.8j, but I would suggest you
concentrate on getting something
running at all to start with, otherwise
you may become disillusioned with
the project.

To get something working immediately,
I would suggest that you get PostgreSQL
to build an executable that expects to
receive an API list at startup, and then
just executes that API whenever a
facility like SELECT is needed.

That way you can replace the internal
implementation details anytime you
want.

So, something like:

EXEC PGM=POSTGRE,PARM='MYPROG ABC DEF'

And as above, both POSTGRE (full, server,
not just client) run in this address space,
along with your user prog MYPROG.

At a later date you can move the server
portion into a different address space,
using some sort of cross address space
communication, and potentially after
that, move the server so that it runs
under Windows instead of MVS.

BFN. Paul.
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
"and I note that the "PC" instruction doesn't
exist in standard Hercules S/370 and
MVS 3.8j,"

You're wrong.

/*B218*/ GENx370x390x900 (program_call,S,"PC"),

https://github.com/rbowler/spinhawk/blob/master/opcode.c

Page 10-25. PC is an S/370 instruction.

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/370/princOps/GA22-7000-10_370_Principles_of_Operation_Sep87.pdf

Joe

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 7:08 PM, [hidden email] [H390-MVS] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> ---In [hidden email], <jimruddy1953@...> wrote :
>
> > Btw, has anyone (besides me) ever looked
> > into what it would take in terms of work to
> > provide this functionality in MVS 3.8J?
> > Load into global and subsystem interface
> > don't look too bad but the functionality of
> > PC/AUTH looks a little daunting. Or did
> > I miss something and it has already been done?
>
> I don't understand your question, and I
> note that the "PC" instruction doesn't
> exist in standard Hercules S/370 and
> MVS 3.8j, but I would suggest you
> concentrate on getting something
> running at all to start with, otherwise
> you may become disillusioned with
> the project.
>
> To get something working immediately,
> I would suggest that you get PostgreSQL
> to build an executable that expects to
> receive an API list at startup, and then
> just executes that API whenever a
> facility like SELECT is needed.
>
> That way you can replace the internal
> implementation details anytime you
> want.
>
> So, something like:
>
> EXEC PGM=POSTGRE,PARM='MYPROG ABC DEF'
>
> And as above, both POSTGRE (full, server,
> not just client) run in this address space,
> along with your user prog MYPROG.
>
> At a later date you can move the server
> portion into a different address space,
> using some sort of cross address space
> communication, and potentially after
> that, move the server so that it runs
> under Windows instead of MVS.
>
> BFN. Paul.
>
>
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Re: Free Database for H390-MVS?

Hercules390 - Mvs mailing list
---In [hidden email], <joe.monk@...> wrote :

>> and I note that the "PC" instruction doesn't
>> exist in standard Hercules S/370

> You're wrong.
 
> Page 10-25. PC is an S/370 instruction.
> GA22-7000-10_370_Principles_of_Operation_Sep87.pdf

I checked the page reference and you
are right. Thanks for the correction.

BFN. Paul.